Welcome And Guest Introduction

Mike Mirarchi 0:19

Welcome to the Toilet Paper Salesman podcast. My name is Mike Murarki, and I'm pleased to have Corinne Kavlinsky on today. Corinne is an executive coach and private thought partner. She is a board certified executive coach who works with senior executives navigating politically correct high-stakes situations where misreading the situation can have serious consequences. I'm really happy to have you on the podcast. Corinne, welcome.

Corinne Gavlinski 0:47

Thank you so much, Mike. I'm happy to be here.

Mike Mirarchi 0:49

Yeah. Let's get into this because uh I'm excited for this podcast. And one of the things that you talk about, and really what I want to get into is how did you get here? So that's the first question. But you talk about not necessarily being a coach, but being a strategist. And so I'd like you to talk about that as well. But how did you get started? How did you get to where you are now?

Corinne Gavlinski 1:12

Yeah,

Two Careers And A Turning Point

Corinne Gavlinski 1:13

thank you. You know, I've had two careers. I had an initial early stage career in financial services, where I was working for a very large, actually several very large publicly traded companies that were in the credit card management space. And those were really my formative learning years. Both of those companies did a lot to raise young talent, young leaders, and put them through their paces. I think not a lot of companies do that today. But I was tested and had a different job every year, for example. So they would move us around, have us lead in different areas. That experience helped teach me what I was good at, what I wasn't very good at, and how to move forward. And so I leveraged that experience into an abrupt right-hand turn into healthcare, about 13 years in, and spent the remainder of my career in healthcare and worked for some very different companies, young startups, private equity-backed companies, some venture capital-backed, and one publicly traded company. So wide diversity of types and sizes of companies. But the thread throughout was that I was leading sales, sales ops, account management organizations pretty much my whole career. And how I got here is that I made another abrupt right-hand turn. After 20 plus years, I frankly didn't feel very fulfilled anymore. I was the corporate life was losing some of its luster. The things that I thought I wanted in my 20s and 30s suddenly I had.

Quitting Under Pressure And Grief

Mike Mirarchi 3:12

At one point, I know in doing some research about you, that you actually quit your job.

Corinne Gavlinski 3:18

I did.

Mike Mirarchi 3:19

And you look back on that. So talk about that. Talk about what led you to quitting your job, and then what things that maybe you could have done differently that now you take and apply to your advisory practice.

Corinne Gavlinski 3:33

I'll fully acknowledge I've not only quit my job, but I've been fired twice or let go as you know in rifts. The first couple of times that happened, boy, did that sting. That was a major ego blow, a real identity crisis, if you will. And then when you're in control and you quit, it's quite the opposite, right? You feel in command of what you're doing and why you're doing it. The first time I quit my job, I was in honestly a tailspin. Um, my parents had both recently passed. And after some elongated period of time with dementia, two different types of dementia, I was their primary caregiver. And I'm an only child. So it was a very long stretch of time that was exhausting. And I found it very difficult to be all things at once, wife, mother, you know, executive in my job. And something had to give, and it was the job that that gave. Um, so at the what should have been the pinnacle of my career, I quit cold turkey. And that was an identity jolt, but a purposeful one, very hard to do. The next time was really, if I'm really honest with myself, I was disenfranchised. I was tired. I was exhausted of the corporate circus, dare I say.

Mike Mirarchi 4:58

It's a good word.

Corinne Gavlinski 4:59

I felt like I wasn't doing my best work. And the part of my work that I really enjoyed was strategy, was mentoring people, was helping people see the different avenues that they may choose to go about and what the potential benefits or consequences of those avenues might be. And so when I contemplated, well, what the heck am I going to do with this third chapter of my career? That really stood out to me. And so then I tried to figure out, well, what could I do in that capacity? Consulting certainly popped to mind right away, but I wanted an opportunity to work more one-on-one with people. And so then that led me into the thinking partnership or executive coaching realm.

Mike Mirarchi 5:45

Okay.

Caregiving Changes How You Lead

Mike Mirarchi 5:46

So I'm going to go back just a little bit. Um, so when you were a caregiver to your parents, which is so honorable for you to do that. And then you you go through that experience. How did that change how you looked at what was going on in the corporation? And is that really what led you to quit at that point? Yeah.

Corinne Gavlinski 6:04

Yeah. Yes, it was a few years later, but the short answer is yes. You know, when you're in, and this happens for people in the corporate context as well. When you are that thinly stretched and you are that exhausted, all you can do is tackle the thing right in front of you. And if I've learned nothing at all, it's that this that when you go through something like this, it really puts in perspective what's important, what's not important, and it really brings clarity to what am I trying to do in my life and what has meaning. And will anyone ever say about me that I was a good leader? And when I reflected on whether I was a good leader, the answer was no. The answer was not as good as I could have been. And no, I was self-centered, a good portion of my career. And part of that was how I was brought up. I was brought up in an age where you were constantly striving for the next thing. And so that's what I did. And in that process, I wasn't overly concerned with those that I was leading. I wasn't overly concerned with their success. And so the experience of treating and helping my parents really brought me up short at my own shortcomings and where I could be a better leader. And so the next job I took, I took a role where my predominant responsibility was yes, guiding the strategy of the team, but really pouring into some young people who were in their first phase of career. And that was tremendous fun and gave me a bit of a do-over, if you will.

Mike Mirarchi 7:52

We always get those opportunities to do over when we're looking for them. Yes. Yes. Very true. And I love the pouring into young people to the same point. You know, how do you get people from point A to point B in in their personal and professional lives, whatever that means for them, because it's different for everybody. But as a leader, that's our goal. And one of the things that I say is the higher you go, the lower you are. And you become more of a servant, no matter the height of the position. And the higher the position, the more you have to serve.

Corinne Gavlinski 8:25

Well, I think leaders today lose sight sometimes of how raising others that work with you also leads to your own success. And I don't think I've appreciated that all that often as I was striving, striving, striving, right? I was a high-achieving executive. I was always going after the next thing. But what I failed to realize is if I spent at least half my energy pouring into my team members, we'd all rise. And so that's a shame, you know, that I had to learn that so late in life.

Women Leaders And The Hustle Trap

Mike Mirarchi 9:00

Do you think that part of that was because you were a woman executive and you felt like you needed to prove yourself?

Corinne Gavlinski 9:05

Yeah, for sure. Part of it was DNA. I'm wired that way. I'm wired to sort of get S done, you know, like I get stuff done. Right. Right. And the other thing is, is that I was, particularly in financial services, I mean, I was one of very few women. And so that was just what you did. If you wanted to succeed, you you hustled to get ahead.

Mike Mirarchi 9:29

Can you talk a little bit about that experience of becoming a woman executive? It's obviously a little different now. You still women still faced a lot of challenges that you probably faced a lot more back when you came through.

Corinne Gavlinski 9:42

When you're in sales, it is a little bit the good old boys' network, right? And so you have to break through that. And breaking through that meant being, or at least trying to be better than everyone else. You know, study harder, be more engaging, be more personable, listen better, bring strategy to the forefront. Yeah, emulate behaviors of those around you, which included mostly men in my case. And so I tend to be a woman very dissimilar to women leaders today. Can't say most of my leadership career that I was very empathetic. I was a hard-charging, get-it-done kind of leader and still predominantly am, although the edges have softened with some age and experience. You know, I imagine I was quite difficult to work for because I had very high standards of myself. And those correlated to the standards that I held others to. And when you did not live up, boy, I was pretty unforgiving. I can admit that freely now. It's a little bit um, I'm a little embarrassed by that, but it's the truth. So I might as well say it.

Mike Mirarchi 10:54

It's okay. You know, we have to come to terms with ourselves at some point. What advice would you give a young woman today, graduating out of college, looking to get into the executive track? What would you tell them?

Corinne Gavlinski 11:07

You know, there's so much coming at them today. This is a great question, Mike, because I have a daughter who has just entered corporate life in her first job. So I give her lots of advice, most of which she doesn't really appreciate. Um yet. Yet. Perhaps she will someday. But, you know, despite the flood of technology and AI and the changes coming and the pace of change coming to the workplace, underneath it all, I still firmly believe that if you cannot communicate with others, you are really going to put yourself at detriment. And I try very hard to instill both in those who have worked for me that I still am in regular contact with, as well as my clients, as well as young people that I mentor, that you've got to learn to talk to people. And that means both talking with people and listening to people and putting yourself out there. You know, young people that are in their 20s came up in a time when they do everything electronically over text, predominantly, or some text format. They don't really know how to engage in a long conversation with people. And so that's less of a problem for my clients, but more of a problem for young people today. So we work a lot on that, actually.

Mike Mirarchi 12:27

Great advice.

Why Communication Still Wins Careers

Mike Mirarchi 12:28

Okay, so let's talk about now you become an executive coach, or I think what you prefer to say as an advisor or strategist. Talk about the difference between a coach and a strategist because I know that you make that distinction.

Corinne Gavlinski 12:44

I do. I have predominantly men clients, which is curious to me. I think it has a lot to do with matching intensity. I have a rather intense personality. I've been in intense fields. I, as I say, am all about what are we achieving? And so that matches nicely with male executives a lot of the time. The distinction I make between a strategic thinking partner and a coach is that a strategic thinking partner goes far further than what a traditional coaching philosophy would ascribe to. And here's what I mean by that. In a true coaching relationship, the coach is not a participant in so much as they are not sharing their point of view, their experience, what they think about the scenario that the client may be describing. There's nothing wrong with that philosophy or model, but that is not who I am. The clients that I work with want someone who is both strategist, ideator, someone who can challenge them. Perhaps it's someone who is going to spar with them a bit and challenge their way of thinking, not only about their own behaviors, but about the situation that they're describing. Then we're going to ideate about what might be the potential solutions, what does their gut feeling say versus what is the more logical path? Where might there be emotion behind it? What does the other person want in this equation? And now how are we going to strategize to get what you want ultimately or preserve your influence for the next round? That's a very different conversation. That's a give and take, that's a conversation. That's all about what are the options? What do I think about them? Do I have any experiences myself that might offer something to think about in that equation? That's a very different model than peer coaching.

Coach Versus Strategic Thinking Partner

Mike Mirarchi 14:52

Like I said, the higher you go, the lower you go. You become more of a servant. But the higher you go, the less people you have to talk to who will give you true advice, won't just tell you what you want to hear, because the people at work will not tell you what you want to hear. No. If you're the CEO of a company, they're not telling you what you need to hear, they're telling you what you want to hear. That's exactly right. So who does the CEO talk to at that point?

Corinne Gavlinski 15:16

Someone like myself, in all honesty, because the political landscape has shifted dramatically in even a decade, if not 15 years, right? Um, and as you become more senior, the terrain becomes a lot lonelier, too. You don't know with whom you can have a conversation, that that conversation isn't either going to be repeated or repeated with edits, right? And so your ability to control the narrative is almost nil. And so the only way that you can, if you care about your leadership, get honest, objective, sometimes hard advice is to seek someone outside that has no stake in the matter whatsoever, because they're gonna hold your confidence, they're gonna tell you what they really think, and they're gonna offer you a mirror to reflect back what maybe you don't want to see right away. And so that's something that I can't believe I never took advantage of when I was actually in my corporate life that I regret not having done because it's a strategic advantage. When you're the CEO, when you're the president, when you're the chief growth officer, who do you really trust to reveal your doubts, your concerns, your vulnerabilities potentially, or just your confusion about what to do next, or your frustration with your colleague who's just on your case all day long and not have there be a potential backlash or consequence. There's no one. Occasionally someone says there's a person, but that's it.

Mike Mirarchi 17:03

I mean your spouse, you could always talk to your spouse and you do, but it's hard for your spouse because they're invested emotionally in your success. As my wife says, the mama bear claws come out, you know, or somebody's attacking you, their instinct is to attack. And so not to say that the good advice isn't good. It is good, it's valued, but it's not always there is obviously emotional ties to that. That's right. Where in your case, there's no emotional ties, you're looking at things objectively and give them, like you said, confidential, which is huge, advice that is where you're seeing the whole picture. As a leader, you have blinders on sometimes and you don't see everything that's going on around you. And you might think you trust a certain person, but that person might not be very trustworthy. You just don't know.

Corinne Gavlinski 17:53

At the end of the day, humans are self-centered beings. We all think of things from our own lens, right? That's just human nature. It's not that people are bad in that, it's just human nature. So that said, you have to be aware of that as a leader and know that not everyone is going to be looking out for you except you. And so if you really want someone who is going to help you more objectively evaluate whatever the situation is, you're gonna have to find someone who's not inherently looking out for themselves in your organization. So being outside the organization is a key part of this because when I'm conversing with a client, I'm not trying to get ahead in his organization. I'm not trying to make myself look good for any purpose to his leaders or to his board. I've got nothing to prove there. My job is to make him look the best he can look or make her look the best that they can look.

Decision Paralysis And Influence Strategy

Mike Mirarchi 18:59

What would be a typical type of strategy that you work with a client on? What would be an example?

Corinne Gavlinski 19:05

You know, clients come to me for they present in a couple what sound generic uh ways, but someone will often say to me, Crane, I've got a problem with this person in my office. I've got a problem with a peer, I've got a problem with my CEO. That's usually how it happens. That's one flavor. Another flavor might be, man, Cran, I am just, I don't know if I can keep doing this. I'm exhausted. I'm so sick of this. I don't know if I've changed or if the game's changed. And so those two scenarios crop up a lot. But most of that all kind of distills down, Mike, into how do I continue to stay influential and be the leader that I want to be? A lot of conversations revolve around decision making in the organization. Lack of decision making in the organization comes up nine times out of ten. Organizations these days, I find, have a real problem with decision making. And so a very specific example client of mine who was up for promotion. His boss was up for promotion, very senior levels of this organization. And he needed to wait for his boss to be elevated, for him to be elevated. There were certain things that needed to be done in order to make that effect happen, right? It was dragging and dragging and dragging. And a lot of the reason it was dragging is because his leader was not making decisions. And this is a typical thing that we hear. And so our conversations then center around who might you need to influence to get this decision made? How might you need to circulate your own point of view around this in a way that helps your leader to get to a decision? What is the right context and timing for you to voice those things? When is not the right context and timing for you to voice those things? And how do you come alongside your leader to try to help them in a way that is not overly assertive or condescending, but helps them see a path so that they can get to a decision? Those are tough conversations. That's a multifaceted 13-person strategy of how you're going to go forward. And it took us a year and a half, but he got the promotion. And his leader got the promotion. And now we're having very similar conversations again because he's trying to change his organization to accelerate sales and revenue. His leader doesn't want to make a decision again. We're back in the same boat, but the circumstances have changed a little.

Timing Tone And Political Damage Control

Mike Mirarchi 22:01

So you help leaders navigate through minefields.

Corinne Gavlinski 22:05

Yeah.

Mike Mirarchi 22:05

Because that's what that really is. That's a minefield. And if you make one mistake, then you set yourself back. Yeah. Or you have to start over, or you could even do damage.

Corinne Gavlinski 22:15

Yeah. I think the biggest lesson I learned in my leadership career. Is when to keep your mouth shut. I unfortunately didn't. I overstepped. I was really emotionally frustrated. We had been talking in circles on a meeting. You know the kind, the ones that go three hours. And I voiced my frustration aloud and said, I remember to this day, I said something like, You said this, and this other person said this. These are divergent strategies. These are not anywhere close to being the same thing. So what is the real strategy here? And I said it with attitude and tone. And it was, you know, every executive in the whole company was on the call. And it was inappropriate. And right then and there, because I did not think about timing and context, a narrative started to form around me. Crin's unhappy. Crin's not on board. Mm-hmm. Crin's really vocal when she's upset. This whole narrative started swirling around me. And you know what? I didn't have a strategic thinking partner to say, how do you repair this? What's your role in this? Where do you need to do damage control? How do you shift the narrative? Who's it most important to shift the narrative with? I didn't have anybody asking me those questions. And so it just simmered around me.

Mike Mirarchi 23:37

Very interesting. I mean, sometimes there's an obvious correction that needs to be made, but how do you bring it up in a way that is going to help to make it happen versus hurt you for bringing it up? Because sometimes the hard things need to be brought up.

Corinne Gavlinski 23:55

It wasn't even that I was necessarily wrong. It was that I didn't manage my own emotions and I didn't consider context and timing. That could have been the kiss of death.

Mike Mirarchi 24:08

Incredibly valuable. So when you're talking to a prospective client and they say, Corinne, what's the value? You know, I whatever you charge is probably more than they want to spend most times. Come on, you know, help me to understand what's the value.

Corinne Gavlinski 24:24

Yeah. Most of my clients are already extremely senior level. So seeking a promotion is not necessarily the thing. But it is also true that clients that I work with are more mature in their careers and are suddenly both contemplating am I being the leader I want to be? And is this really what I want to be doing right now? Is this really where I'm meant to be for this chapter of my career? And so the value is navigating those relationships at work that help you find and get to both being a better leader and doing work that you genuinely enjoy and trying to shed some of the things that you don't really enjoy, or at least maybe if not shed them, manage them better. So it is true that a lot of my clients have been promoted, but that's not necessarily what they were going for when they hired me. What they were going for was someone to help them solve problems without the risk of consequence.

Retirement Identity And Redefining Purpose

Mike Mirarchi 25:32

Have you helped executives in their transition out of their career?

Corinne Gavlinski 25:37

You know, it does come up, but it's usually in the context of a five to 10 year horizon. So what do we need to be doing today to help get to that place in five or 10 years? It's not so much transitioning out right now, but it does come up more frequently than I would have initially expected, honestly. A lot of people are retiring early, which is great. But then for high achieving C-level leaders, the thought of, oh my gosh, well, who am I going to be if I'm not the CEO or the CGO or whatever? That's a hard thing to contemplate. There's a lot of people that aren't real sure who they're going to be if they're not that person anymore. And so that's a reflection in the mirror that they are not yet prepared to see. And so then we talk about well, how do you get to a place where you are accomplishing things in your life that are different than what you've always been used to accomplishing? So that does come up. Sometimes it shows up of how do I even have a succession plan? Can I leave in the best way possible in that, whatever that time horizon is, and know that I have created individuals who can take the reins and lead well into the next two, three, four decades? So what am I doing to pour into those people? What am I doing to develop those people? Have I even asked what they want? You'd be surprised how many times I talk with leaders who say, Oh, yeah, I think Joe is gonna be my successor. And I say, Oh, what's the conversation you had with Joe about what his ambitions are? And they're like, Well, uh uh I what do you mean? And I said, Well, have you asked Joe if he wants the job? No, they haven't.

Mike Mirarchi 27:26

As the leader and someone who is knowing that they're gonna exit at a certain point, to be a good steward of your position within the company, you've got to bring people along to be able to fit in and take care of the business as you exit. And I think truly that allows you to exit with more comfort, knowing that the business is in good hands, what you've built, what you've been able to grow and expand, you know, kind of your baby is now in good hands and with capable people who've been trained up, who've been mentored to the point where they're able to take over and really just continue it and grow it beyond. A truly successful leader is one who does that and is able to exit out of the business and have the business be great and not be chaotic and not be, I think that's a very valuable thing.

Corinne Gavlinski 28:20

Even if they're not altruistic about the company, the clients that work with me are altruistic about the people.

Mike Mirarchi 28:28

Right.

Corinne Gavlinski 28:28

And a lot of what keeps them at their job, even if they hate their job at the moment, is the people that they work with. And so I think probably one of the things I got right in my career is that I still keep in touch with an awful lot of people who used to work with me. And that feels good. Like that feels good that they still reach out periodically and seek counsel or say, hey, Corinne, how, you know, I've got this situation. How, how would you have handled this or what could you offer me in terms of advice? And that feels great at this stage in my career. You know, it feels like I gave them something once upon a time, and they would find value in that again.

Mike Mirarchi 29:12

That's a mark of a great leader when people can remember to say, Hey, I remember when you really helped me, when you really gave me that advice, or gave me the chance to prove myself or saw something in me that I didn't even see in myself.

Corinne Gavlinski 29:26

Even if that meant me saying, You might be better suited to this other thing.

Mike Mirarchi 29:31

Yes. You know, I've had those conversations with people. They'll apply for a job and you and you say no. And they go, Why? Can you tell me why? And I've always given straight advice, no BS when it comes to that. And say, you know, I'll give you an example. I had somebody who applied for a job. He was a professional soccer player. And you know, professional sports and sales translate really well. We had an open position, he applied, and I wanted to give him an interview, even though he had no experience. I saw it professional sports, it takes a lot of dedication, it takes hard work, discipline, it takes, I mean, just so much to become a professional sports player. All those skills that allows him to be a professional soccer player in Europe is gonna translate. So I get him on an interview and he goes, Well, you know, um, I'm back from Europe, I'm doing some coaching, and you know, I'm thinking nine to five. And so this is how he's thinking about his sales job. And I said, You're not ready. And he goes, What do you mean? I said, Okay, so let's think about this. Say you're gonna be a professional soccer player and you go to Europe and you go, Yeah, I'm just gonna do this from nine to five. What do you think they would say? He goes, Well, they'd send me right back, and you go, of course, it's the same thing. I said, if you want to be a professional sales leader, you've got to treat it as a profession. And it's all in. You've got to give it the same work, the same dedication, the same as becoming a professional soccer player. And he's like, Wow, he's like, I I've never thought about it that way. And it turned out that obviously I didn't hire him. I said, I'm you're not ready. I said, But someday if you are ready, let's talk. And he really appreciated that I was straight up with him and gave him that advice.

Corinne Gavlinski 31:16

People, you know, genuinely, at least I find with my clients, they they may not always like it initially when you reflect to them what's the truth. But I can't tell you how many times, Mike, that I have clients that say, God damn it, Corinne, I heard you in my head. And I love it when I hear that because that means something we've talked about has resonated enough that it's stuck with them. And in the moment that they wanted to blow it, they heard me talking to them in their head and say, Oh, do you really want to do that?

Mike Mirarchi 31:46

You hear voices, but sometimes that's a good voice to hear.

Corinne Gavlinski 31:49

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Mike Mirarchi 31:53

What do you like to do personally? What's your what what's your hobbies? What's your passion?

Corinne Gavlinski 31:58

Oh gosh. You know, I um I love to read. I read every day. Um, that's a a big thing for me. I have a very tight-knit group of girlfriends. We love to travel. My husband and I love to travel. So we're in the the years where we're uh about to go, go, go here and uh really start to hit some of those lifelong travel wishes, hopefully make it to Africa here before too long. I foster dogs periodically. I usually fail and end up keeping the dogs. So um that's a problem. But um, so I enjoy taking care of animals, particularly lapidors. And I have a young daughter who I'm still, you know, raising and being a mom to. Lots of things to keep me busy in life.

Mike Mirarchi 32:44

Yeah, that's awesome.

Corinne Gavlinski 32:45

But I am like my clients in that I am contemplating, oh gosh, if I'm no longer achieving, like I'm accustomed to achieving, what does it now mean to have a day of achievement? And I have to look at that very differently once I'm no longer in business.

Mike Mirarchi 33:03

When you go from a hundred miles an hour to zero, how do you manage that?

Corinne Gavlinski 33:08

Yeah. It's an ego and an identity jolt for sure. For sure.

Mike Mirarchi 33:14

Yeah, it's a challenge.

Corinne Gavlinski 33:15

When I can't say, wow, this client just faced this and we tackled it, and he came up with 16 ideas and we picked two and you went with it, and it was a huge success. When I can't say that anymore, is it enough to say I walked five miles and I lifted weights today? I don't know the answer to that. I'm still contemplating it.

Mike Mirarchi 33:35

It's an interesting thing to deal with because I'm dealing with it right now. I'm was with a company for nine years and I'm not with them. And now I'm working through all that, which is hey, I go take an hour and take a walk with my grandson, and I can enjoy it and I can really get a lot out of that. But is that enough? And that's the thing. Like, how do you make that transition from just craziness every day to silence to you you have work to do, you're doing work, you're doing things, but not nearly to the level that you were doing. When my dad retired, he said to me, I wish I never would have retired. I didn't realize that going from that daily routine every day to nothing is a big jolt for a lot of people.

Corinne Gavlinski 34:22

It is. You have to redefine purpose, right? We don't talk about that a lot in corporate life. What is our purpose? Well, a lot of leaders I work with say, well, my purpose is to get ahead. Yeah, that's what we were brought up to do. So if you're not doing that, what is it that you're doing? What is it that is your purpose? What is it that's fulfilling to you? And maybe it's giving back, maybe it's helping young leaders, maybe it's helping to raise children, spending time with grandchildren or children, even if they're adult children. But you have to be able to define that. And that is a real conundrum for people. It really is.

Mike Mirarchi 34:59

Yeah, me too. Well, it's always a work in progress, no matter what. Yeah. We're all a work in progress. Well, Corinne, great conversation. Goodness, this was amazing. And I so much appreciate you coming on the podcast and spending some time with us.

How To Reach Corinne

Mike Mirarchi 35:17

How do we get in touch with you? If somebody wants to explore the possibility of working with you, how would they get in touch?

Corinne Gavlinski 35:24

Of course, I'm on LinkedIn. So Corinne Gavlinsky, you'll find me. Very few people with that name, so it shouldn't be a problem. The website for our company is thegavgroup.com. And you can connect with me directly at Corin at thegavgroup.com. Any of those three ways you can find me. And the website in particular will tell you a little bit about me, my philosophy, what it's like to work with me, and uh some current client comments are on there as well. So you'll see what others have to say.

Mike Mirarchi 35:53

Great. We will make sure that we have your contact information on the podcast episode. With that, who says selling toilet paper isn't glamorous? Thanks a lot and have a great day. Thank you, Mike.

Corinne Gavlinski 36:06

You too.